Cartwheel rolls like a group of recently grown up kids on a fresh summer day. It’s not that their sound is anything else less than mature – Cartwheel just has that exuberant pop rock vibe to which it’s hard not to reminiscence. Eleven writer Matt Stuttler caught up with Cartwheel’s Rachel Bowdon (RB, vocals/Wurlitzer), Jason Kozemczak (JK, guitar/vocals), John Hill (JH, bass), and Kyle Collman (KC, drums). Read the interview below!
Catch them on Saturday, with Adult Fur and Michael Franco at Off Broadway.
11: So tell me how the band came together?
RB: Jason and I started playing together when we started dating.
JK: In sort of different forms, Rachel, Jon, and I have been playing together close to two and half years.
KC: I started playing with them in December [2011].
11: Tell me about your shared musical influences and how you bring those influences together in Cartwheel.
RB: Jason and I listen to a lot of Wilco together.
JK: I’d say my biggest influence personally is Lou Reed, Stephen Malkmus and the Jicks, Pavement. I like the sort of poppy brashness of that style now. Mix that with Rachel’s style which is a little more lax and smooth. We try to mix those together in interesting ways. We try to keep it poppy but also highlight what Rachel does well I think, which is everything. (laughs)
KC: I think when I came into it, I wasn’t really pulling from any direct source of inspiration, any sort of band, or artist. It was just more the overarching genre. Kind of going for the indie pop sort of sound. I definitely do keep in mind the juxtaposition of the softness that Rachel brings and the beautiful melodies overtop against some more interesting, harsher backbeats.
RB: I like slow songwriters but I really like the idea of rock and roll too.
JH: It’s some combination of Feist and Spoon. Rachel’s voice with a little more driving rhythms and melodies.
11: So what does the name Cartwheel signify?
JK: I think it’s trying to be playful, right? I mean at the end of the day we play music because it’s fun. Am I going to get rich by playing music?
RB: I don’t think anyone’s getting rich by playing music now (laughs).
JK: We take our music seriously, but not too seriously. I think the trick is finding the right balance of we’re having fun playing and listening to other people and being a part of the St. Louis scene. You do a Cartwheel when you’re having fun right? We try to stick to that.
11: What effect do you feel that St. Louis as a city has on your music and also what effect do you have on St. Louis’s music scene?
RB: I feel like St. Louis has a really cool music scene. St Louis is known for blues and jazz. I feel like that’s part of the roots. There’s some alt-country stuff going on now. I feel like we bring a lot more indie pop to that. More rock and roll. I love the culture of St. Louis. I love the South City bars. I love that we can go and see a band in St. Louis that we actually, really like.
JK: There’s a lot of good Americana in this city. I think that what we’re seeing, at least from the band’s, a few of our friends we play with is the poppy, fun stuff which I think has its place. It has been kind of left behind the last five to ten years here in the city. I grew up around the St. Louis area and we all went to school around here. I think we’re even on the verge of bringing that scene up to snuff, you know?
JH: St Louis is beautiful but messy and grungy at the same time. I feel like you see a lot of that in our music as well.
11: What do you feel is unique about the bands and music in St. Louis? You’ve mentioned Blues and Americana. Is there any progressive movement? What role do you think you play in it?
RB: I think St Louis is getting better all the time, not to quote the Beatles. (laughs) A couple months ago on Designsponge.com… there [was] a guide to St. Louis, and they talked about Pokey Lafarge. I think he’s brought a lot to St. Louis. I think that it’s getting there. The city itself is getting more hip, maybe that’s just because we’re just now noticing it. I feel like St. Louis is getting noticed a lot more too. <<Mr. Lafarge was also Eleven’s September/October cover!>>
KC: We have a major music festival [LouFest] now that’s largely supported by local musicians and wouldn’t be possible if we didn’t have a large pool of talented local bands to pull from. That’s awesome to see. I didn’t grow up in St. Louis and wasn’t directly involved until a few years ago, but I did notice the scene from the outside. I can remember one, maybe two bands for a while that would have a consistent, solid draw and you could really count on and you thought that they were actually going somewhere. Now there’s two handfuls. There’s three shows a week going on that I’d like to go to. There’s tons of local bands right now that are doing really well. Definitely progressing.
11: You guys combine a classic, cabaret sound with a peppier, pop vibe. How do you find performing in the St. Louis bars has affected that?
JK: I think that’s something we struggled with. Translating the cabaret aspect is difficult because we definitely have that influence in quite a bit of our music. I think the one way we’ve done that, we’ve tried to pep things up a little bit.
RB: We’re just really loud. (laughs)
JK: We went into the studio with Kit Hamon and David Beeman from Old Lights, which is actually one of my favorite bands to go see live. They had some really good ideas on how we could really liven our songs up. I think they translate much better on the stage now. Not trying to go away from the cabaret roots, but trying to keep the energy high. We’re definitely going that direction.
RB: It’s real easy to just play jazz standards and be okay with that in St. Louis but I feel like we’re trying to do something different, more accessible.
JH: I think it’s cool. A lot more of our music is starting to feel more driving, but at the same time Rachel’s voice still holds…
KC: Still soaring with the eagles. Right above the damage happening below. (Laughs)
11: Tell me more about your recording experience. Did you guys do a lot of experimentation with Kit in the studio?
KC: Kit was awesome to work with. We definitely gave him the green light for any production ideas he had. It was a fairly live recording, we were definitely open to anything he had to say. Having a fresh set of ears on the songs is huge, and definitely on a trusted friend and musician in Kit. Touching on what we said a little earlier, we definitely were trying to liven up the songs in previous performances, and it definitely did feel a little forced. The songs were still the same but we were forcing the liveliness of it. Kit took that energy and helped us restructure some things, rewrite a couple parts that definitely brought out more energy. They were both awesome to work with, Kit and David.
RB: I feel like we did a lot of editing in the studio. A lot of sounds were maybe drawn out. We made things really count. Not that we were minimalist about it.
JK: We’re still putting on the finishing touches. There’s more production to be done.
JH: That objective set of ears from a trusted friend is always needed.
KC: Yeah, we were sitting on some of those songs for almost two years. You kind of get set in the way, can’t imagine another way but Kit saw that. I feel like there’s a lot more space on the album too than what we had been playing previously which definitely makes each individual part more appreciated and sound better.
11: Can you guys give me details on the release you’re working on?
JK: It’s going to be five tracks. It’ll be short and sweet. Most of the songs thematically are about coming to age. It sort of sounds cliché, but all of us are recently out of school and obviously going through transitions on our own. Certainly, we’re going to embrace that. The songs embrace that. I think that theme is very human and relatable.
11: What is it you feel that makes Cartwheel stand out in this kind of girl-fronted pop arena?
RB: I feel like there’s a lot of girl-fronted bands coming out now. I feel like what makes us stand out is we’re not a “girl band” – I’m the only girl in the band. I think what makes it stand out is the rock and roll behind it. I’m not trying to be Joan Jett, I don’t play guitar very well.
KC: It doesn’t feel like it’s [Rachel’s] songs with a backing band. It feels like its all one band that [Rachel] happens to do the vocals for.
JK: If you go on Pandora and you like a girl artist, they basically group every other female artist with you which I think is unfortunate. It’s still sort of a deep rooted sexism in music.
RB: I don’t know how many times I’ve heard “You sound just like Norah Jones” and I really don’t think I do. It’s just that’s the only girl that people know that sings apparently.
JK: What I would love, is to not be considered a girl band. If we can do that, if everyone can do that, I would think we did better good overall.
11: You mentioned Rachel started as a solo performer. How has it changed with a more permanent set of band members now that you are Cartwheel?
RB: I used to write really sad and depressing songs. I went to Martha’s Vineyard [in Massachusetts] for music for a semester at school and I started playing with a band there but it wasn’t really playing with a band. I didn’t really know what that meant. I was just playing, and the band was just backing behind me. I would tell them exactly what to play and they would play it. It wasn’t until I started playing with Jason that we started writing songs together. We started really collaborating on things. I never collaborated before that. It’s changed a whole lot. I love collaborating on songs. I think they sound a lot better because you have two sets of ears listening. I don’t think that goes for everybody. If you find the right person and the right mix then it sounds really good.
11: Rachel and Jason are an engaged couple.
RB: Yeah yeah.
11: You guys share vocal duties…
JK: A little bit.
11: Do you guys ever just sit around and sing songs to each other? Do you bounce awkwardly cute musical ideas off each other?
RB: Last week we sang Dashboard Confessional songs and shouted them at the tops of our lungs. I had a friend that was coming over and she was knocking on the door, but we could not hear her because we were singing so loud.
JK: One of my favorite things to do is to take melodies from pop songs and interject things about Rachel into them. I do this so often, in fact, that sometimes I’ll be at work and I’ll start humming one of these made up songs of mine and insert Rachel’s name into it. People will look at me funny. So music is certainly a part of what we do.
RB: We like to play cover songs together too. Even when we first started dating, we would just play ‘90s songs together. It’s probably the most fun you can have with somebody, just to play random ‘90s songs and just sing your heart out.
11: Your music comes off as infinitely optimistic at times. Is this intentional? How do you feel your lyrics effect the sound of the song or vice versa?
RB: I love the lyrics. I will be really angry if the lyrics don’t match the song. Even if they don’t necessarily mean anything to anybody else, they definitely mean something to me. I have a constant theme I’m thinking about the whole time that I’m singing. It reminds me of a place.
JK: A lot of the time the way our songwriting works [is] I’ll come up with a mood or a theme. I don’t want to go too far with it. That’s always my worry. We talked about with the recording process getting too caught up on what your song should be and not letting other people decide what that should be. I much prefer a lighter mood than a darker one.
11: How does your rhythm section function? How do you work together?
KC: We like to call it the “Apollo Mission.” I use a set of vintage Apollo drums then Jon picked up a vintage Apollo bass so when the two of us plug in and go at it…
JH: We’ll never stop.
KC: It’s the “Apollo Mission” all over again. The two really lock in a harmonious way that has never been…
JK: It’s like ground control and Major Tom!
11: How do you know how far to drive a song live without overpowering the songwriting faction of it?
JH: I just try to look for the different climax points in the song instead of having something that’s more monotone rhythm wise. I try to have a lot variation in the drive. I think that just comes with playing songs a lot and seeing what feels right.
KC: I think the longer we play the song, the more we’ve seen other ways we could do it. It’s kind of different show to show sometimes with us, which is kind of cool. That’s something in itself. Jon and I, we fill it out. We make it a little louder. We make it a little more impactful and fun to play sometimes. This is the first band I’ve been in that’s only four members, has more of a melody to it, and an actual structure so I’ve had a lot of fun actually having more space in the songs. Just kind of featuring different parts. It’s not all out all the time, it’s fairly up and down for us. We strip it down in a lot of verses, then bring it back. It’s something we’re still working on. The album is going to help us with that.
JK: One of the things that took me a long time to learn was when not to play. I think some of my favorites, like some of them here in town they know when not to play. We’re still learning that.
11: What’s in the future for Cartwheel?
JK: I want to get this record out… and then I want to focus on sitting down and really working on some new tunes. We have a whole lot of stuff that is back-lined right now. Maybe a short little Midwest stint.
11: What do you think is the best way to get involved in the St. Louis music scene?
RB: A lot of it has to do with talking to people after shows. Going to see local music and then talking to artists who are doing it. If you do like what they’re playing, tell them. It’s really nice to hear that. Also to hear new music and appreciate that. I also think the local radio and magazine scene do a good job at promoting local music.
JH: I feel like St. Louis is definitely a local music town. There’s always two or three shows a week that you think would be fun to go to.
KC: Just talking to people in bands and at venues after shows. I know growing up that seems kind of awkward and when I’m out of town [at a show] that seems a little awkward. Once you start talking to people in St. Louis that are in a band or they’re running a venue, they’re all just like us. Everybody’s working a day job and doing this at night. Nobody really has egos. Everybody’s cool about it. With St. Louis being so vibrant right now with music, you can look at that optimistically or pessimistically. You can look at that as everybody’s in competition and there’s all these other shows people can go to. Or, kind of the way I’ve embraced it is just make friends with everybody and everybody goes out and supports everybody else. That’s going to help things for everybody.
JK: I think one thing St. Louis has going for it is it’s a very accessible music scene. For artists and for fans too. There’s room to be both. I certainly am both. You can’t say that about every town. It’s something we should be proud of.
